Video University: Video University Forums: Audio For Video: Official NEW Zoom H2 Thread! UPDATED...: Page 4


Home	Free Library	Store
Free Catalog

Save with a Two Year Membership

To post in the forums see the Forum Guidelines.
Join or Renew Today.
New Benefits for all VU Members

Forum Guidelines and FAQ
Main Index	Search Posts
Who's Online	Log In

Home: Video University Forums: Audio For Video:
Official NEW Zoom H2 Thread! UPDATED...

1 2 3 4

View All

Brackish
Veteran

Dec 20, 2008, 10:54 AM

Post #76 of 89 (2850 views)
Shortcut

Re: [RustyB] Official NEW Zoom H2 Thread! UPDATED... [In reply to]	Can't Post

Congrats, Rusty! Seems like it could be a handy device.

I haven't followed it real close, here, but the one thing I seem
to recall is that there were reports (?RT maybe) that the sound
wouldn't stay in sync. Now, I've got various portable recorders
(iRiver, minidisc, hard drive) and none of them stay in sync with
the cam but they are consistently out of sync whereas (if memory
serves) the H2 was said to be inconsistently out of sync. I'd just
be wondering how badly out of sync it is. As I recall some people
did express frustration with this issue when it came time to edit.

The other thing I think I heard is that the H2 is better used with the
built-in mics as compared to plugging in external mics. Something
about high hiss maybe with external mics?

I guess some (?Fr0gman) are really happy with theirs.

I hope this doesn't come off as me trying to be negative about your
purchase, which is not the intent. I'm just shootin' the sh about it. Smile

My guess is you will be very happy with it.

------------------------------------------------------------
"still motion is who everyone else is trying to be like"

RustyB
Veteran

Dec 20, 2008, 12:05 PM

Post #77 of 89 (2847 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Brackish] Official NEW Zoom H2 Thread! UPDATED... [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

....I hope this doesn't come off as me trying to be negative about your
purchase, which is not the intent. I'm just shootin' the sh about it. Smile

My guess is you will be very happy with it.

I hear ya. The sync problems with cheap audio recorders isn't a real problem for me, since I'm just using them for music, and not for vows and readings and stuff...yet. I still prefer having a wireless going straight to the camera for that, to speed up my extremely limited post production time for weddings.

Faith Poison Wedding Films Blog
Intergalactic Award-Winning Epic-Cinematic Wedding New-Doc Style Indie Fusion Bridal Movies on Hi-Definition Blu-Ray Disc

Brackish
Veteran

Dec 20, 2008, 12:18 PM

Post #78 of 89 (2846 views)
Shortcut

Re: [RustyB] Official NEW Zoom H2 Thread! UPDATED... [In reply to]	Can't Post

So how do you see using this mostly? Put it on a mic stand near
the musicians? Any other uses? Maybe too big to stick in a
groom's pocket?

------------------------------------------------------------
"still motion is who everyone else is trying to be like"

RustyB
Veteran

Dec 20, 2008, 12:31 PM

Post #79 of 89 (2840 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Brackish] Official NEW Zoom H2 Thread! UPDATED... [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

So how do you see using this mostly? Put it on a mic stand near
the musicians? ..

That's what I was thinking. I've got a really lightweight light stand that will thread right into the bottom of the H2, so it would be simple to setup in a church or reception hall. I just gotta see if a 2nd lightstand will squeeze into my tripod bag..I don't like adding gear to my kit...but going all tapeless in 2009 should help lighten the load. Plus I'm going to ditch the Sony 10/20 for a LitePanels Micro, which will knock another pound off my bag.

I have a feeling the H2 will look a lot smaller in person than it does in the pictures.

Faith Poison Wedding Films Blog
Intergalactic Award-Winning Epic-Cinematic Wedding New-Doc Style Indie Fusion Bridal Movies on Hi-Definition Blu-Ray Disc

Brackish
Veteran

Dec 20, 2008, 1:58 PM

Post #80 of 89 (2839 views)
Shortcut

Re: [RustyB] Official NEW Zoom H2 Thread! UPDATED... [In reply to]	Can't Post

I hope no Fusion Ph0t0graphers are reading this. Laugh

Yeah, the thing that's neat about the H2 is the mics are
built right in. I regularly set up mic stands for recording
musicians but then I've got: #1 the mic, #2 the XLR
cable, and #3 the recorder all to connect and set up whereas
with the H2 it's all one piece of kit. I've heard that the H2 mics
aren't too bad, either. Just from the price of it and
looks of it (i.e. not a super-pro appearance) my first thought would
be that the mic's were tinny sounding (think AM radio) but maybe
that's not the case.

Do you shoot outdoor weddings much? I've seen a furry they
sell for handheld mic's that might fit onto the H2. (Fur ball
might be called "Mike Muff".)

I'd have to check the specified dimensions to see how fat the
H2 is, regarding putting it into a groom's pocket. For my tastes
the iRivers are too thick to use for groom mic'ing - but there
are videogs by me who do just that. And like I've said, I think
the talk here was that the preamps of the H2 for mic-in were kind
of hissy - though I may be wrong on this since I haven't
followed it real closely.

------------------------------------------------------------
"still motion is who everyone else is trying to be like"

MLiebergot
Veteran

Dec 21, 2008, 7:41 AM

Post #81 of 89 (2815 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Brackish] Official NEW Zoom H2 Thread! UPDATED... [In reply to]	Can't Post

Brack to put it simple, the H2 is too fat to place in a grooms pocket.
You could try to clip it to a grooms hip like you would with a wireless, but that's the extent of it.

As for the best use of the H2, the built in 1/8 mic and line ports are no the best, especially the line in port (it could easily clip.

But the H2 was really built to be used as a mic recorder. Hense the pretty good built in mics.
I have generally used the H2 for recording soloists and musicians. It has performed great in this method.

I have also clamped the H2 to a mic stand for a ceremony (the officiant used a mic stand by the couple for the vows) and the H2 performed great. So there's another use.

Also I have used the h2 on clamped to a mic stand, while a Rode m3 mic with plug in transmitter is mounted on top of the mic stand. The stand is placed in front of a PA stack and performed fairly well as long as the H2's per amp is set to low (L), or else it will clip (in the form of an annoying electrical chirp) badly.

Like Rusty, the way I edit is to capture the music as it was and use it in the final edit. So for the reception you would get the main dances and events, and then I create 3- dance montages (1 slow 2-3 fast) and use the best music (entire songs) and build the dance montages around this.
So I am only needing the H2 or other recorder to capture audio to be used in post. The most important hing for me is to capture the best consistant live audio that I can, and the H2 is one nice simpe tool that lets you do this.

It does have it's limitations. But as long as you know what tehey are (like any tool) you can find some great uses for the recorder.

Michael

Cameras: (3) Sony FX1, Canon HV20
Audio: Marantz PMD620, Edirol R44, ZoomH4N, ZoomH2, Sennhesier G2
Mics: Rode NT5, Rode NT3, Rode M3, Rode NTG2, Shure SM57, AT822
Software: Sony Vegas, Final Cut Studio
Computer: MAC BABY! MacPro, MacBook Pro

Brackish
Veteran

Dec 21, 2008, 8:56 PM

Post #82 of 89 (2792 views)
Shortcut

Re: [MLiebergot] Official NEW Zoom H2 Thread! UPDATED... [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Brack to put it simple, the H2 is too fat to place in a grooms pocket.

Hey, Michael. Happy holidays. I checked the specs of the H2 and saw that it is 1 1/4" thick. As I was saying earlier, the iRivers are a tad too thick - for my tastes - to put in the groom's pocket. (I am aware that some videogs do put an iRiver in the pocket but the bulge concerns me when used with tight-fitting tuxes.) I measured the iRiver thickness and it it a hair under 1 1/8", so the H2 at 1 1/4" is even fatter. As far as the length and width of the H2, I do believe it would actually fit into the groom's pocket - it's not too wide and long - but that thickness ... So how do the H2 mic's sound? Harsh in the treble? Any bass pickup? Is the bass muddy? When you hear of a device having 4 mic's at that price, you have pretty low expectations.

------------------------------------------------------------
"still motion is who everyone else is trying to be like"

MLiebergot
Veteran

Dec 22, 2008, 7:48 AM

Post #83 of 89 (2776 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Brackish] Official NEW Zoom H2 Thread! UPDATED... [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hey Brack, Happy Holidays to you as well.

The mics on the H2 are actually very good, and overall in normal recording conditions the H2 really performs very well to spectacular. Especially for the money comparatively speaking.

The mics are pretty accurate and not to tinny or too muddy.
However when you use the H2 using it's built in Low (L) pre amp setting the sound image does get muddy.
The H2 does not do well with extremely loud recording situations. When the H2 clips it clips in the form of an annoying chirping sound. This can't be cleaned in post. So as long as you know the H2's limitations (don't place it directly in front of a PA stack, especially make sure that if you do that you have the Low pre amp setting checked).

I still say from first hand experience that I wouldn't place the H2 in a grooms pocket. Trust me, as the unit is a bit too big. Simply clip it to the waist band of the user and run your lav mic accordingly.
Be wary of the H2 and it's 1/8 line or mic input, as Zoom's internal pre amps are not very good. And especially using the ine in, be wary of clipping. The idiots at Zoom built the unit so the pre amps come before the input levels. So as a result, if you turn down the H2 to prevent clipping, it will not work and the H2 will still clip.

So a good rule of thumb is to always record your H2 at least at 100, and judge your levels from there.

Using the unit is great set it and go.
I have used it with GREAT success by simply placing it on a mic stand and setting it up in 2-channel (dual stereo mode using both front and rear mic elements in stereo pairs), to record live musicians during ceremonies. You get a great real feel to the recording.
Also I recently used it for a Jewish service that I filmed for someone, where I used the H2 for backup audio and clamped it to the mic stand that was right by the couple and Rabi. The H2 had a great sound as it captured the vows, canter singing, Rabi, and even crowd applause and laughter during the vows FANTSATIC. I used it in 2-channel mode which I just described above.

I have also used it for music jams and recitals in 4-channel mode with very good success.

Like any tool, as long as you know your equipments strengths and limitations you wil be very happy with the H2.
Just use it to its strengths along with your other tools and enjoy.

Michael

Cameras: (3) Sony FX1, Canon HV20
Audio: Marantz PMD620, Edirol R44, ZoomH4N, ZoomH2, Sennhesier G2
Mics: Rode NT5, Rode NT3, Rode M3, Rode NTG2, Shure SM57, AT822
Software: Sony Vegas, Final Cut Studio
Computer: MAC BABY! MacPro, MacBook Pro

RustyB
Veteran

Dec 22, 2008, 9:15 AM

Post #84 of 89 (2773 views)
Shortcut

Re: [MLiebergot] Official NEW Zoom H2 Thread! UPDATED... [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

....Using the unit is great set it and go.....

Do you ever use the automatic gain control? The wildly varying levels at a wedding, for example between a ear-drum blasting pipe organ and a string quartet taking turns, or a the toasters on the DJ's system going from a loud-mouth Best Man to a queit Maid of Honor who likes to wave the mic around like a magic wand instead of talking into it. Laugh

Faith Poison Wedding Films Blog
Intergalactic Award-Winning Epic-Cinematic Wedding New-Doc Style Indie Fusion Bridal Movies on Hi-Definition Blu-Ray Disc

MLiebergot
Veteran

Dec 22, 2008, 9:30 AM

Post #85 of 89 (2771 views)
Shortcut

Re: [RustyB] Official NEW Zoom H2 Thread! UPDATED... [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

Nope never, I wouldn't trust it. As the built in limiters are very slow and sluggish to respond. So if I use it at a reception I simply set the record level to 100-102, pre amp on L (Low) and place the recorder at a safe distance from the PA stack and usually slightly off to the right or left side of the PA stack.

As for the ceremony, I have not encountered a situation where I have both a pipe organ and musicians at the same ceremony. It has always been one or the other for me.

So if I'm recording musicians, I place the H2 on a mic stand down low, (in 2 or 4 channel mic config mode) and in the middle of the players. Works great very time.

For a pipe organ, I place the recorder on the floor of the church and record accordingly. No way I want this recording by the pipe organ. It would distort and clip for sure.

All in all I don't find the levels changing wildly at a wedding. Yes, there might be some instances where, levels will change, such as speeches and DJ music playing. But I either have split the difference or adjusted before each happening. After all the speeches are generally at the same time and all of the DJ music is played in certain blocks.

As you know I use more than one recorder for my audio. I will use a Marantz PMD620 for board feeds and lectern recording. H2 for general live instrumental speech mix. Edirol R09 for backup audio (sometimes).

And at times Edirol R-44 for entire mix, and use H2 for backup live audio.

Most people can easily get by with an H2 and a wireless system and/or H2 and one additional recorder.

Michael

Cameras: (3) Sony FX1, Canon HV20
Audio: Marantz PMD620, Edirol R44, ZoomH4N, ZoomH2, Sennhesier G2
Mics: Rode NT5, Rode NT3, Rode M3, Rode NTG2, Shure SM57, AT822
Software: Sony Vegas, Final Cut Studio
Computer: MAC BABY! MacPro, MacBook Pro

Brackish
Veteran

Dec 22, 2008, 10:20 AM

Post #86 of 89 (2767 views)
Shortcut

Re: [MLiebergot] Official NEW Zoom H2 Thread! UPDATED... [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Do you ever use the automatic gain control?

Quote

Nope never, I wouldn't trust it. As the built in limiters are very slow and sluggish to respond.

Rusty's already thinking of returning it now that he hears he can't use auto levels. Wink

------------------------------------------------------------
"still motion is who everyone else is trying to be like"

Brackish
Veteran

Dec 22, 2008, 12:57 PM

Post #87 of 89 (2761 views)
Shortcut

Re: [RustyB] Official NEW Zoom H2 Thread! UPDATED... [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Do you ever use the automatic gain control?

I know you've talked here in the past about the advantages you've
found using auto levels over manual levels. Personally, I've never
used auto levels. I'm sure Michael and Fr0gman could give you some
ballpark starting settings. Myself, how I figured it all out using manual
only with my recorders is just by 1. taking my best guess, 2. keeping
notes about the situations (e.g. "piano, 6 ft away, record level 6").
Then 3. I pull the recording into my NLE and check the waveform
for how far off I was from where I would want to be. So, say "level 6"
was too low so I 4. make a note that next time I'm recording a
piano I should put the mic 6 feet off and set the level to "8" instead
of "6".

So, I've got notes for "singers at 1 feet", "singers at 3 feet",
"singers at 6 feet", "organ at 10 feet", "upright piano at 4 feet",
"violin at 3 feet" ... well, you get the idea.

All my best. Smile

------------------------------------------------------------
"still motion is who everyone else is trying to be like"

RustyB
Veteran

Dec 22, 2008, 1:19 PM

Post #88 of 89 (2756 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Brackish] Official NEW Zoom H2 Thread! UPDATED... [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Do you ever use the automatic gain control?

Yeah, that's whay I'm thinking...there will be a couple of different settings that I'll learn will just about cover the typical situations I shoot in time and time again.

I DO find auto-gain when using, for example, the on-board video camera mic, whether shotgun or internal, for "ambient" audio to mix in the video, or for long stretches of unedited/boring dance footage that some brides request me to shoot.

Also, with the I can't get my Senn e-604/plug-on transmitter to work without using auto gain, when I use to to mic a DJ's speaker at point blank for toasts. I guess the best I could get the levels on the G2 transmitter and receiver still have the audio coming in really hot, so the auto gain/limiters in the Sony cams are required to bring it down. It's kinda strange...it's really blown out even if I turn the camera level all the way down in manual...but turn on auto...and the toast magically comes out perfect! Audio is definitely not a strong point for me. Laugh

I was ticked my H2 hasn't came in yet. Last night they had a string quartet and piano player...and I think they played the organ as well! So, I did the usual and put my palmcorder/stationary cam by the quartet to record them, a camera angle that of course got blocked when like ten 7 foot tall groomsmen came out and stood in front of it. It didn't matter anyways, since the idiot hobbyist-coordinator turned down the lights when the ceremony started...rendering the footage useless.

I don't normally get that excited over gear these days, but I can't wait to start using the H2...in addition to going tapeless on SDHC for video as well. Importing AVCHD off the SDHC card from the palmcorder last night was a dream...about 10 minutes to import over an hour of footage...capturing the two MiniDV tapes from the main cam was NOT. Crazy

Faith Poison Wedding Films Blog
Intergalactic Award-Winning Epic-Cinematic Wedding New-Doc Style Indie Fusion Bridal Movies on Hi-Definition Blu-Ray Disc

Brackish
Veteran

Dec 22, 2008, 1:59 PM

Post #89 of 89 (2753 views)
Shortcut

Re: [RustyB] Official NEW Zoom H2 Thread! UPDATED... [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

It didn't matter anyways, since the idiot hobbyist-coordinator turned down the lights when the ceremony started...rendering the footage useless.

You know what I had a little old Church Lady tell me once?
I was working this dark church and I asked the church lady if she
was planning on turning up the lights and she told me that she asks
the brides how they want it and most of them say they want the
lights dimmed down. I was kind of surprised to hear this but it
seemed like the Church Lady was telling me the truth.

[As an aside ... in this particular instance I right away went and told
the bride it would be better for the video to have the lights up and
I told her to go tell the church lady to turn 'em up to full, which
she did -- although Church Lady was saying to the
bride "are you sure?? most of the girls want 'em down".]

------------------------------------------------------------
"still motion is who everyone else is trying to be like"

1 2 3 4

View All