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Home: Video University Forums: Audio For Video:
portable recorder, whats the quietest

 
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Adam Forgione
Enthusiast

Oct 19, 2009, 7:32 AM

Post #1 of 40 (1339 views)
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portable recorder, whats the quietest Can't Post
i saw a comparison on like 5 recorders a while back, i cant find it anywhere. anyway i need to get a backup recorder fro the groom. im thinkinh edirol r09 but am open to other ideas. i want to get quietest preamps and a great lav mic to go with it - any ideas?
Adam Forgione
Pennylane Productions


MLiebergot
Veteran


Oct 19, 2009, 8:28 AM

Post #2 of 40 (1335 views)
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Re: [people9300] portable recorder, whats the quietest [In reply to] Can't Post
For simple use of groom audio the Edirol R09HR, Marantz PMD620 might be the two best options. The Tascam DR07 and Yamaha Pocketrack 2G or Yamaha Pocketrack CX aren't bad either The pre amps are about the same on all of these and are much betetr than the much used older iRivers many have used. Each have their strengths and weaknesses, but nothng really glaring.

If you are gong for recorders with good pre amps, you are moving up to larger units like the Edirol R44, Marantz PMD660 etc.
But most of the pocket recorders are in the same fidelity class, with some being slightly better than others.

Most will work very well for event recording purposes.
Myself I love my Marantz PMD620 fr small recordings and board feeds. But I also use a Zoom H2 for strings and medium decibel music recordings (it's a little fat to put in a pocket, but it can be clipped to a waist). I also use a Zoom H4n for off camera audio and am really loving it as well. Then there's my R44 for larger 4 track recordings such as bands, orchestras, stage performances etc.

Different tools for different jobs.

Michael

Cameras: (3) Sony FX1, Canon HV20
Audio: Marantz PMD620, Edirol R44, ZoomH4N, ZoomH2, Sennhesier G2
Mics: Rode NT5, Rode NT3, Rode M3, Rode NTG2, Shure SM57, AT822
Software: Sony Vegas, Final Cut Studio
Computer: MAC BABY! MacPro, MacBook Pro


Adam Forgione
Enthusiast

Oct 19, 2009, 8:38 AM

Post #3 of 40 (1332 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] portable recorder, whats the quietest [In reply to] Can't Post
thanks michael,

yeah i have the r44 and i love it. i just need a solid recorder on the groom incase i hit interference hell. would you recommend a good lav mic? if do i need a special adapter being that the r09 is 1/8" input i believe
Adam Forgione
Pennylane Productions


MLiebergot
Veteran


Oct 19, 2009, 8:46 AM

Post #4 of 40 (1331 views)
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Re: [people9300] portable recorder, whats the quietest [In reply to] Can't Post
Quote
yeah i have the r44 and i love it. i just need a solid recorder on the groom incase i hit interference hell. would you recommend a good lav mic? if do i need a special adapter being that the r09 is 1/8" input i believe
I have used Darrens Giant Squid mics with no issues. The only thing you have to remember is to turn on mic power (these recorders can give 6-12v of phantom power for lav mics) in the recorders menu, or else the lavs won't work. I have found this to be the case with the Edirol R09 and Marantz PMD620.

But the GS mics have worked great for me.
After all these are only small lav mics, so I don't worry about my audio except for close spoken word. Otherwise I use the onboard mics or an external mic plugged into it (which is rare for my purposes with these small recorders).


Michael

Cameras: (3) Sony FX1, Canon HV20
Audio: Marantz PMD620, Edirol R44, ZoomH4N, ZoomH2, Sennhesier G2
Mics: Rode NT5, Rode NT3, Rode M3, Rode NTG2, Shure SM57, AT822
Software: Sony Vegas, Final Cut Studio
Computer: MAC BABY! MacPro, MacBook Pro


FaithPoison
Enthusiast


Oct 19, 2009, 11:57 AM

Post #5 of 40 (1322 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] portable recorder, whats the quietest [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
For simple use of groom audio the Edirol R09HR, Marantz PMD620 might be the two best options. The Tascam DR07 and Yamaha Pocketrack 2G or Yamaha Pocketrack CX aren't bad either The pre amps are about the same on all of these and are much betetr than the much used older iRivers many have used. Each have their strengths and weaknesses, but nothng really glaring.

If you are gong for recorders with good pre amps, you are moving up to larger units like the Edirol R44, Marantz PMD660 etc.
But most of the pocket recorders are in the same fidelity class, with some being slightly better than others......

I got the Tascam DR07 and found it was way too big to slip in a groom's pocket (just personal opinion). That PockeTrac CX actually looks like it might actually be small enough...plus it does 16/bit-48kHz..so there shouldn't be ANY sync issues with my other recorders I guess.

I'm using a tiny Olympus voice recorder right now...haven't had to change the batteries for months (they still show a full charge), and it's so small you can't feel it in your pocket (some grooms are wierd about how having a big wireless or recorder crammed in their front pocket). BUT it only records in WMA...so it's heavily compressed and syncing is a major PITA!!

That PockeTrak CX might just fit the bill...but it's $250. It's only money, I guess. Tongue Plus, I have a feeling there might be a brand new one for sale on the VU Trading Post in a couple of weeks. Laugh


I've also been won over by the GD mics. They sound great, and are a heck of a bargain!! The only thing I'd ask him to change the next time I buy one, is if he can attach the mic to the "teeth" end of the clip...so that I can attach the clip to the inner edge of the groom's jacket instead of the edge of the lapel...which leaves a bit of cord running across his lapel. If you attach it to the inside edge of the lapel, the the mic sticks way out against the groom's white shirt, and you can see it from the back of the church.

Also, don't forget to buy a white one as well, for the grooms that wear white tuxes...they're so cheap...why not. I do some Filipino weddings here as well, so I got the white mic with a long cord to reach the groom's pants pockets...since their white "tux" is not only usually see-thru...but it doesn't have any shirt pockets. I got the black mic with just a 12" cord...since it always goes in the front pocket of the jacket...no more bundles of cord crammed into the pocket! Cool



Faith Poison Films
Limited video-taper training webinar seats available - book today - I take Paypal!
Learn how to make money videotaping weddings like the big boys!!





(This post was edited by FaithPoison on Oct 19, 2009, 3:53 PM)


Brackish
Veteran


Oct 19, 2009, 1:43 PM

Post #6 of 40 (1316 views)
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Re: [people9300] portable recorder, whats the quietest [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
i saw a comparison on like 5 recorders a while back ... i need to get a backup recorder fro the groom ... i want to get quietest preamps
I think I know what comparison you are talking about but don't
have the link.

Would you be putting the recorder in the groom's pocket or clipping to
his belt?



------------------------------------------------------------
"still motion is who everyone else is trying to be like"


Adam Forgione
Enthusiast

Oct 19, 2009, 2:46 PM

Post #7 of 40 (1310 views)
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Re: [Brackish] portable recorder, whats the quietest [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
In Reply To
i saw a comparison on like 5 recorders a while back ... i need to get a backup recorder fro the groom ... i want to get quietest preamps
I think I know what comparison you are talking about but don't
have the link.

Would you be putting the recorder in the groom's pocket or clipping to
his belt?
yes, i decided to go with an r-09 and a highend tram mic (the lav alone is about $300 but im getting it used for $200) hope this is the right decision
Adam Forgione
Pennylane Productions


Brackish
Veteran


Oct 19, 2009, 7:51 PM

Post #8 of 40 (1290 views)
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In Reply To
Would you be putting the recorder in the groom's pocket or clipping to
his belt?
yes
Okayyyyyy.



------------------------------------------------------------
"still motion is who everyone else is trying to be like"


FaithPoison
Enthusiast


Oct 19, 2009, 8:54 PM

Post #9 of 40 (1285 views)
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Re: [Brackish] portable recorder, whats the quietest [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
In Reply To
Would you be putting the recorder in the groom's pocket or clipping to
his belt?
yes
Okayyyyyy.


Correct. I see what you're saying, and understand your concerns. I sympathize with your situation and will do what I can to remedy the situation. I completely agree with your observations, and look forward to working out a plan that will be satisfactory to your needs. If you don't mind, I'd love to meet with you at Starbucks and discuss these issues further while I'm over at Don Juan's sandwich shop eating a London. I'm going to the junkyard tomorrow to buy some aluminum wheels for my car. LaughLaughLaugh


Seriously, I just pulled the trigger on the Yamahow Pocketrak CX. $250 is big moneys for such a little gadget...seeing as how Target can sell MP3 recorders for like $15. But, it records 16bit/48k, and looks pretty damned small...WAY smaller than anything else I've pissed away money on trying to find the magic bullet of recording vows. I'll get it Wednesday, use it Friday and Saturday....then I guess sell it on VU on Monday. LaughLaugh Really though...this might finally be "the one"..(thanks Michael, really)..I wonder what it looks like in a bikini?



Faith Poison Films
Limited video-taper training webinar seats available - book today - I take Paypal!
Learn how to make money videotaping weddings like the big boys!!





MLiebergot
Veteran


Oct 20, 2009, 6:22 AM

Post #10 of 40 (1267 views)
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Re: [FaithPoison] portable recorder, whats the quietest [In reply to] Can't Post
Quote
Really though...this might finally be "the one"..(thanks Michael, really)..I wonder what it looks like in a bikini?
Hey it's only money right.
Now you were saying what the recorder woudl look like in a bikini and not me right?
Teh recorder would look better. Wink

Seriously, post a review of the recorder after you have had time to use it in the field. I'm curious how small it is to use a a pocket recorder, and also curious as how well the onboard mics work for stealth situations.


Michael

Cameras: (3) Sony FX1, Canon HV20
Audio: Marantz PMD620, Edirol R44, ZoomH4N, ZoomH2, Sennhesier G2
Mics: Rode NT5, Rode NT3, Rode M3, Rode NTG2, Shure SM57, AT822
Software: Sony Vegas, Final Cut Studio
Computer: MAC BABY! MacPro, MacBook Pro


FaithPoison
Enthusiast


Oct 21, 2009, 9:08 AM

Post #11 of 40 (1240 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] portable recorder, whats the quietest [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
...post a review of the recorder after you have had time to use it in the field. I'm curious how small it is to use a a pocket recorder, and also curious as how well the onboard mics work for stealth situations.



I just pulled it out of the box, switched the mic sensitivity to high, turned "ALC" on (I like ALC for recording groom+bride+minister...noisier BUT consistent levels that don't need tweaking in post), changed the format to 48kHz/16bit, and did a quick mic check with my GS mic.

Perfect.

Size? Not bad at all...nearly perfect. I'd prefer it to NOT have on-board mics...to make it shorter...and cost less..but then I guess nobody would buy it. It's extremely lightweight...feels similar to my cheap Olympus voice recorder...just longer. It similarly feels cheap...but that's the point...keep it light in the pocket.

This definitely fixes my groom-mic search. It was worth the $250 to not have to deal with trying to sync 44.1kHz audio from my Olympus recorder anymore...what a PITA. Thanks SO much for the tip...this makes me happy....LESS post work!! Cool



Faith Poison Films
Limited video-taper training webinar seats available - book today - I take Paypal!
Learn how to make money videotaping weddings like the big boys!!





Tim A
User

Oct 21, 2009, 9:58 AM

Post #12 of 40 (1236 views)
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Re: [FaithPoison] portable recorder, whats the quietest [In reply to] Can't Post
Does it have a lock button Rusty, to keep the groom from messing around with it? Did you go with the CX over the G2 because of the 48kHz?

__________________________________________________________________



FaithPoison
Enthusiast


Oct 21, 2009, 10:07 AM

Post #13 of 40 (1234 views)
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Re: [Tim A] portable recorder, whats the quietest [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
Does it have a lock button Rusty, to keep the groom from messing around with it? Did you go with the CX over the G2 because of the 48kHz?

Yup and yup! Cool Two must-haves for me.



Faith Poison Films
Limited video-taper training webinar seats available - book today - I take Paypal!
Learn how to make money videotaping weddings like the big boys!!





MLiebergot
Veteran


Oct 21, 2009, 11:17 AM

Post #14 of 40 (1230 views)
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Re: [FaithPoison] portable recorder, whats the quietest [In reply to] Can't Post
You definitely want the ability to record at 48 kHz, as is you record at 44kHz you are more apt to have sync issues.

Michael

Cameras: (3) Sony FX1, Canon HV20
Audio: Marantz PMD620, Edirol R44, ZoomH4N, ZoomH2, Sennhesier G2
Mics: Rode NT5, Rode NT3, Rode M3, Rode NTG2, Shure SM57, AT822
Software: Sony Vegas, Final Cut Studio
Computer: MAC BABY! MacPro, MacBook Pro


Brackish
Veteran


Oct 21, 2009, 12:04 PM

Post #15 of 40 (1227 views)
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Re: [FaithPoison] portable recorder, whats the quietest [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
In Reply To
Would you be putting the recorder in the groom's pocket or clipping to
his belt?
i decided to go with an r-09
I love people here who post looking for advice on a purchase and, before all the replies roll in, they go ahead and buy. I'm not meaning to single out the original poster here; I've seen the same thing with many others here as well. They post "I'm thinking about getting ______ and I'd like some advice." Within the same day, they've made the purchase. Now, if it were me, if I post "I'm thinking about making a purchase and looking for advice", I'm days weeks or months away from making the purchase. I've seen this with microphone purchases ... "HELP! I'm thinking about buying a new microphone and need suggestions." "Well, to begin with ... What's the microphone for? What's your budget range? Is phantom powering okay?" And then later that day comes ... "THANKS ALL! I've pulled the trigger on XYZ mic. Wish me luck. Hope I've made the right decision."



------------------------------------------------------------
"still motion is who everyone else is trying to be like"


Scott Brooks
Veteran

Oct 27, 2009, 5:01 PM

Post #16 of 40 (1165 views)
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Re: [FaithPoison] portable recorder, whats the quietest [In reply to] Can't Post
So Rusty ... did you try your PockeTrak out on a wedding yet? If so ... did you put it on the minister and did it work out ok for you?


FaithPoison
Enthusiast


Oct 27, 2009, 5:15 PM

Post #17 of 40 (1162 views)
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Re: [Scott Brooks] portable recorder, whats the quietest [In reply to] Can't Post
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So Rusty ... did you try your PockeTrak out on a wedding yet? If so ... did you put it on the minister and did it work out ok for you?

Oh, heck yeah, I used it both weddings this weekend...I put that mug on the groom with a GS mic, set it to 48k/16bit so that it would sync with my 2 H2's and videos cams, set the switches to auto gain and high sensitivity, and it sounds AWESOME. I use the autio gain since I often have to use the groom's mic for the minister and bride's audio...so auto works great. It has solved the last of my audio prob's!



Faith Poison Films
Limited video-taper training webinar seats available - book today - I take Paypal!
Learn how to make money videotaping weddings like the big boys!!





Brackish
Veteran


Oct 27, 2009, 5:37 PM

Post #18 of 40 (1156 views)
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I got the Tascam DR07 and found it was way too big to slip in a groom's pocket (just personal opinion).
 That's my opinion, as well. Too fat. I see that the specs for the Tascam are about the same as the specs for the unit the original poster chose to go with. And identical thickness: "1.1 inches".



------------------------------------------------------------
"still motion is who everyone else is trying to be like"


Scott Brooks
Veteran

Oct 27, 2009, 5:45 PM

Post #19 of 40 (1156 views)
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Oh, heck yeah, I used it both weddings this weekend...I put that mug on the groom with a GS mic, set it to 48k/16bit so that it would sync with my 2 H2's and videos cams, set the switches to auto gain and high sensitivity, and it sounds AWESOME. I use the autio gain since I often have to use the groom's mic for the minister and bride's audio...so auto works great. It has solved the last of my audio prob's!
Excellent. Sounds like no regrets.

I purchased two H4n Zooms last week, but I think I'm going to return one of them. I've got an H2 as well, so I think I'm pretty well covered there. I just want to try and get something on the officiant. Around here they aren't real cooperative, but those times that they are I would like to go digitally. My iRiver ... I'll keep it as a back up.

I might just check with my guy at Sweetwater and see about swapping them out.

ETA: Just noticed that it's only like 1/2 inch thick as well. That's even better.


(This post was edited by Scott Brooks on Oct 27, 2009, 5:57 PM)


FaithPoison
Enthusiast


Oct 27, 2009, 6:15 PM

Post #20 of 40 (1151 views)
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..... Around here they aren't real cooperative, but those times that they are I would like to go digitally...

Oh yeah...that's just my style...I don't dare try to mic an officiate....I try not to talk to them at all whatsoever. It opens a whole new can of worms. My audio ain't great...but I get the vows...and try to get the readings/quartets with my H2's. The priests...well...if I touch one they might burst into flames...or I might be struck by lightning. Laugh



Faith Poison Films
Limited video-taper training webinar seats available - book today - I take Paypal!
Learn how to make money videotaping weddings like the big boys!!





Scott Brooks
Veteran

Oct 27, 2009, 6:31 PM

Post #21 of 40 (1146 views)
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Re: [FaithPoison] portable recorder, whats the quietest [In reply to] Can't Post
I can usually get the podium with no problem ... and for the most part the priest is either there or in front of the groom. Most of my couples for Catholic weddings just want the Homily, readers, soloist (if they're friends for family) and the vows ... so getting a mic on the priest is not a do or die issue.

I don't do it a lot, but putting a mic by a speaker has helped on a couple of occasions as well. Unfortunately one time the air conditioner was blowing full blast from below. That one wasn't one of my prouder moments. Unsure


FaithPoison
Enthusiast


Oct 27, 2009, 7:17 PM

Post #22 of 40 (1140 views)
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I can usually get the podium with no problem ... and for the most part the priest is either there or in front of the groom. Most of my couples for Catholic weddings just want the Homily, readers, soloist (if they're friends for family) and the vows ... so getting a mic on the priest is not a do or die issue.

I don't do it a lot, but putting a mic by a speaker has helped on a couple of occasions as well. Unfortunately one time the air conditioner was blowing full blast from below. That one wasn't one of my prouder moments. Unsure

It wasn't very long ago, when my audio was limited to the balcony cam, and the groom mic...and it still paid the same...and the feedback from clients was just as good. Cool

That's one thing that's cool about doing so many "chapel" weddings these days...whether it be because of chapels offering great package deals or the fact I charge $200 MORE for a church wedding, but sometimes at the chapel weddings the DJ will do the ceremony music and mic the officiate, so I just put my "balcony" cam in front of his speaker to get audio.

But then again, it's amazing how badly DJ's are at audio...audio is the entire reason they were hired to do the event...but most of them have a 3rd grade education when it comes to audio. It's sad when a budget videographer with cheap gear and absolutely no audio skills can trump the DJ...or a whole team of DJ's. Last weekend the DJ team blew the outdoor ceremony, blew the reception, and if I had $5 they probably would have blew....never mind. Laugh At least the video will have good audio.

Better than the real thing...that's why video guys like us are underappreciated! At my last couple of weddings, there were some tear-busting vows and prayers that the guests couldn't hear at all, but the family will finally hear when they get the video this week. Photos are great for formals and cats...but photos don't do vows.....



Faith Poison Films
Limited video-taper training webinar seats available - book today - I take Paypal!
Learn how to make money videotaping weddings like the big boys!!





Scott Brooks
Veteran

Oct 27, 2009, 7:55 PM

Post #23 of 40 (1136 views)
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It wasn't very long ago, when my audio was limited to the balcony cam, and the groom mic...and it still paid the same...and the feedback from clients was just as good.

Odd isn't it. Improving audio or upgrading cameras doesn't always translate into more $$ in the pocket. Usually it's just the opposite. Mad Still ... I want to make it as good as I can without breaking the bank or putting myself in a position where I have to add assistants just to set everything up for me.

While trying to improve the audio I'm still trying to simplify things as I go along.



McKnightVideo
User


Oct 27, 2009, 8:19 PM

Post #24 of 40 (1129 views)
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"But then again, it's amazing how badly DJ's are at audio..."

Anyone else get burned by a DJ mixer with zones, coupled with a clueless DJ?
I've had this happen twice in 2008 and not one time before. I connected to their mixer output, typically a line out Left or Right, the idea is to get the toasts and whatnot. Don't give a wit about the music. And twice they've had the mixer setup to where the mic is on a "zone" that doesn't route to my output.

I could run circles around these clowns on their board (and EQ, and gain structure) but of course I'm not allowed to touch. I solved it by using a flash recorder (PMD 620 and just this week a DR-07) to set up on a mic stand near a speaker.


Brackish
Veteran


Oct 29, 2009, 12:00 AM

Post #25 of 40 (1093 views)
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For simple use of groom audio the Edirol R09HR, Marantz PMD620 might be the two best options.
 Some time back I saw charts showing the results some guy found when he tested the self-noise of each of these units. The 620 was much quieter. The R09 had more hiss.



------------------------------------------------------------
"still motion is who everyone else is trying to be like"

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