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Home: Video University Forums: Digital Photography for Videographers:
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Brackish
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Feb 1, 2008, 5:56 AM

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rodovideo
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Feb 1, 2008, 6:56 AM

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Re: [Brackish] Vertical shots outsell horizontal shots 4:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

My guess is it the contents of the shot....

Portraits are probably people/individuals shots...
Landscape(horizontal) shots are groups or buildings/places/landscape.

A wedding is about the Bride & Groom usually when they are together... they fit better (cropped better) in Portrait mode vs Landscape.


Mike R.

Look toward the Son, and you will not see the shadows


Jenn M
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Feb 1, 2008, 8:01 AM

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Re: [rodovideo] Vertical shots outsell horizontal shots 4:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

I've always thought the same thing - b/c of the content - most vertical = portraits, and most 'photojournalistic' type shots are horizontal. Which is ironic b/c so many of these brides have latched onto the 'photojournalistic' style, some claiming that's all they want, but I wouldn't fall for that b/c it's almost always the 'formal' portraits that they end up purchasing for enlargements.

I also prefer vertical albums - easier to design, IMO, and contemporary brides seems to like them better, too.


Postal Boy
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Feb 1, 2008, 8:40 AM

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Re: [Jenn M] Vertical shots outsell horizontal shots 4:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

Also, if you think about it, to get a full body shot horizontal you get a lot of "other" stuff, and not as much of a closeup of the person. Portrait can fill the frame with just that person.


Jenn M
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Feb 1, 2008, 8:51 AM

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Re: [Postal Boy] Vertical shots outsell horizontal shots 4:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

There's one guy in our area that shoots nearly everything horizontally, mainly to avoid shadows from flash, then he just crops for a vertical image. I can't imagine that yeilds very good enlargements, but to each his own...


StillMotion
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Feb 1, 2008, 11:02 AM

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Re: [Jenn M] Vertical shots outsell horizontal shots 4:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

Small group formals are usually vertical. If this company your referring shoots a lot of formals, I would guess that is why they are being sold more. I think it may be as simple as that. I think we probably have a 2:1 sales edge on horizontal shots, but we do very few formals.


Jenn M
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Feb 1, 2008, 11:07 AM

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Re: [StillMotion] Vertical shots outsell horizontal shots 4:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh - I don't know what he sells - I just found it interesting that he shoots everything horizontally - mainly due to avoiding shadows (a bracket, for example, or off-camera lighting can alleviate that problem).

As far as 'formals' - I use the term loosely. I don't mean rigid, line-up and smile-into-the-camera types - I just mean any type of image in which the couple is at least somewhat aware that they are being photographed, including those candid formals during the photo session. I've heard of brides claiming they don't want any designated time for 'formal' photos - they want everything shot on the fly. Problem is they don't realize that many of those so called 'candid' images require some sort of pre-planning, whether it looks like it or not.

At least, that's been my experience.


Postal Boy
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Feb 1, 2008, 11:24 AM

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Re: [Jenn M] Vertical shots outsell horizontal shots 4:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

with an 8.2 megapixel camera the images are 3504x2336 (on the Canon 30d).

If they are CLEAN, you could get a fine 16x20 cropped from it, since the vertical resolution would be over 2000 pixels after cropping.

I have done some tests, and at 100dpi through MPix you can't see any pixellation at all on a clean image (8x10 from a photo 800x1000 in size). If the image isn't clean then you would be getting some grainyness to it, though. It is, however, always better to go at least 150 to 200 dpi when doing prints from a lab - and 300dpi when printing on inkjet (always when possible).

-Postal


Brackish
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Feb 1, 2008, 3:48 PM

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Shadow
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Feb 1, 2008, 4:24 PM

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Re: [Brackish] Vertical shots outsell horizontal shots 4:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd believe that. Most of the shots I pull out for the walls or albums are portrait. I don't know why, but I like them much better. I find I mostly take them in that direction as well, unless it is group shots where it fits better the other way.
I still do take some landscape but favour the other composition.


Brackish
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Feb 1, 2008, 6:57 PM

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Brackish
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Feb 1, 2008, 7:01 PM

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Shadow
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Feb 1, 2008, 7:30 PM

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Re: [Brackish] Vertical shots outsell horizontal shots 4:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

The stuff that I pull out for display at the studio or for bridal show displays and also the photos in my portfolio books. The majority of them are shot vertically.


Shadow
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Feb 1, 2008, 7:33 PM

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Re: [Brackish] Vertical shots outsell horizontal shots 4:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah I take a lot of candids on vertical too.

Good candids are hard to come by, I try explaining that to clients who think by having an assistant who's helping me they're going to get a load of these really great candids refletive of the style they see in magazines. A great candid takes work and a very watchful eye, not just a snapshot from an extra person taking pics.
Sorry, got sideways there... but yes I don't know why but subsconsciously I always somehow tilt the camera and end up with a majority of vertical shots.


Jenn M
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Feb 3, 2008, 8:49 AM

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Re: [Brackish] Vertical shots outsell horizontal shots 4:1 [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Just wondering if you've personally run across any brides
like this yet, who say they only want PJ style?




Yes, and I haven't even done that many photo-gigs. I find many couples 'say' this before the wedding, but it usually changes on the wedding day and they are suddenly requesting more groupings. I have one this month - bride said she doesn't want any formals... except a few family shots - as few as possible. Well, those are 'formals' - and I predict that mom will start requesting some w/ the siblings and how about one w/ this person and that family... and suddenly we'll be knee deep in those formals she doesn't want... supposedly.

I would always do some. I just know now that some couples tolerate less and some want more. Those who say they don't want any - well, like I said, I wouldn't believe them. I did make that mistake with one of my first engagement shoots - almost every shot I had was 'candid' and the couple was not looking into the camera... no formal 'portraits' - except for one. Yes, ONE, and it was the last shot we took - they wanted something for the paper. Well, guess which one they and MOB ordered - 2- 8 x 10s, a few 5 x 7's and a bunch of wallet-size... none of the candids.

Learned my lesson then - the fun, candid, 'photo-journalistic' shots sound more appealing, and 'formals' sound dry, but each have their place and I now make sure I get the 'safe' shots first - same as with video.

As usual, it's all about balance.
-Jenn


Jenn M
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Feb 3, 2008, 9:06 AM

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Re: [Brackish] Vertical shots outsell horizontal shots 4:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

OH and I just remembered another one we did - a small wedding, second marriage for both. Bride wasn't even going to get a photographer - she's a friend of our sis-in-law, who talked her into considering us. Well, we did it as a 'favor' - gave a ridiculous deal. She originally said she wanted only one or 2 nice shots of her, the new hubby and his kids - all before the ceremony - along w/ her immediate family & his family mother, and that's it - no bridal party groupings, etc. One decent bridal portrait, some of the ceremony, and that's it. She didn't care about prep, she didn't care about the reception, she didn't want a ton of 'formals.'

Well, at the time I was so eager to get more experience (and samples) so we did show up early for some prep and stayed for a majority of the very small reception. She had no planned formalities - no dances, no intros, no cake...

That day, they ended up having an informal first dance. They ended up having a few toasts, AND later in the evening, she ended up asking us to go with them from table to table for shots with different groups of guests.

They also ended up ordering an album. Not a very elaborate one - but still, she originally said she didn't 'need' or want one. Guess which photos she mainly chose - nearly all of the formals (including some of the bridal party ones which I took anyway) and several of the 'formal' groupings. I added a few of the prep and reception photos to the layouts and when she saw it, she loved it. She said she was so glad we stayed.

So, this once again solidified my notion that their priorities so often change after the wedding, and they have different ideas about what they want before and after. So going by experience, I am able to better predict what they will appreciate (and buy) later.

This is one more reason I feel I really couldn't have made the transition to photography much sooner than we did. Having all those years of experience w/ video (with brides) really helped.

-Jenn


(This post was edited by Jenn M on Feb 3, 2008, 9:07 AM)


Brackish
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Feb 4, 2008, 2:19 AM

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Brackish
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Feb 4, 2008, 2:26 AM

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Jenn M
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Feb 4, 2008, 10:16 AM

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Re: [Brackish] Vertical shots outsell horizontal shots 4:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

I see plenty of those, too - the ones who spend a ridiculous amount of time with every possible combination of family and bridal party groupings - my first wedding was like that. She, too, said they didn't need a lot of formals... until we got to the park, to which she invited everyone - family, bridal party, family of bridal party etc. ... it was ridiculous, and we nearly ran out of time for shots w/ just the bride and groom. At the end, she's like, "Well, that's everything..." and I'm like, "Whoa, what about the 2 of you..." And she said, "Oh, yeah, I guess we need some of those, too."

So from that experience, I learned to 'nip it in the bud' and have that discussion ahead of time b/c you can really screw yourself out of time. Logically combining groupings is the most efficient way of getting through them, and reminding the couple that you need time w/ just them is part of the professional photographer's job.

Another thing I've noticed is that the more 'sophisticated' contemporary couples are the ones who are saying they want fewer 'formals'. And I think, in their mind, they are lumping all those traditional posed, cheesy shots in with the notion of formals - groom awkwardly kissing the bride's hand as he kneels on one knee; bridal bouquets on the gown train; mom and dad each kissing the bride's cheek; groom looking at his watch in dismay - overly-posed stuff. Stuff they saw in their parents' albums, stuff traditional photographers had to count on b/c they had a limited number of frames, so they had to set up the shot. So when a bride tells me they don't want a lot of 'formals', I translate this to mean they don't want a lot of cheesy posed stuff. Which I admit, I'm guilty of and in a panic, I've fallen back on some of those corny scenario's and darn it, if they just don't look right. So now I get it. I know what they are talking about when they say they don't want a lot of formals. And like I said, I don't believe them when they say they don't want any 'formals' period. I just realize what that they want the basic family formals to be over quickly, and they don't want to spend time doing cheezy, posed stuff, which is cool with me.

That same couple from August (the one w/ the small wedding who ended up ordering an album...) my sis-in-law said that the bride told her she was amazed at how much stuff we got b/c we didn't spend a lot of time posing them. A-ha - the switch went on. Those photos were, in fact, captured during the so-called formal photo session - we just didn't pose them to death. We told them to interact with each other and just shot around them. In her mind, it was candid, or that beloved word 'photojournalistic.' This works for most couples, but not for all. Some need or want some direction, or guidance. I'm getting better at recognizing this and learning how to communicate to them. As a videographer, the old fly-on-the-wall, who's supposed to be invisible, this can take some getting used to.

As far as the group shots at tables - I will only do them if the bride and/or groom are in the shot and they request it, and typically I'll just have them gather on one side of the table (or near-by it), get nice and tight and take a decent semi-posed shot. It's usually more about the people in the picture than the setting, so I don't get too bent out of shape about backgrounds and clutter, etc.

As a rule, I do not go around from table to table, like traditional photogs have in the past, and do deliberate table shots of guests - I just don't see the point and most couples agree. Half the time the guests don't even know each other. I will typically shoot candids of the couple visiting their guests - those are strictly 'photojournalistic' and not posed. They are also typically a pain in the butt b/c most of it is junk, but people seem to like it. And for every 10 junk shots, there is one really cool one with genuine emotion and/or reactions (which I feel is better represented by video... but whatev-ah). For example, one of my favorite shots, still or on video, is guests checking out the bride's/groom's ring. But I don't ask for it - I just wait for it to happen, and sometimes it never does.

-Jenn


Jenn M
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Feb 4, 2008, 10:26 AM

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Re: [Brackish] Vertical shots outsell horizontal shots 4:1 [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess I should add - while we do not do deliberate full table shots (I decided I was NOT going to do this from the beginning - it's too much like doing guest interviews and not everyone appreciates being bothered), we will often scope out couples or families and take a 'posed' shot of the them. So many couples say they do not have a nice picture of themselves - so we give them the opporunity to have one. And I've noticed that in our online gallery software - when they go on to look at the wedding photos, they usually pick the one of themselves as a favorite!

Granted, it's not a formal portrait, but at least it's a little better than a disposable point and shoot picture - the ones I used to see coming in for video montages. Ick.
-Jenn