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Home: Video University Forums: HDV:
Downconverting HDV in-cam? Major dropouts?

 
 


RustyB
Veteran


May 30, 2006, 8:10 PM

Post #1 of 15 (3861 views)
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Downconverting HDV in-cam? Major dropouts? Can't Post
Finally started capturing footage from my first HDV wedding shot months ago.

Video shot with FX1.
Being captured in Vegas, using Vegas, and an HC1 as a capture deck.
HC1 was set to downconvert/output DV.

Captured 3 80minute tapes, and all had buggyloads of dropped frames. I quickly scanned through the footage on the timeline, and didn't see any big problems yet. But, for example, the last tape I captured showed 80 dropped frames!

Used the HC1 to capture a bunch of tapes shot with a VX2000, TRV950, and PDX10, and not a single dropout on any.

Also, the downconverted footage has some wierd vertical jagged edges...kinda like the interlacing lines on my regular DV footage, except going up-and-down. Maybe its just on my computer's LCD.



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Colvin ADTR
Enthusiast

May 30, 2006, 10:00 PM

Post #2 of 15 (3851 views)
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Re: [RustyB] Downconverting HDV in-cam? Major dropouts? [In reply to] Can't Post
You can get major problems capturing hdv if your pc is not fast enough. I don't know if that would happen with a down-convert. Don't know about the jaggies. Could it be a cable/card fault?


RustyB
Veteran


May 31, 2006, 7:44 AM

Post #3 of 15 (3836 views)
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Re: [Colvin ADTR] Downconverting HDV in-cam? Major dropouts? [In reply to] Can't Post
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You can get major problems capturing hdv if your pc is not fast enough. I don't know if that would happen with a down-convert. Don't know about the jaggies. Could it be a cable/card fault?

That's whats wierd...it should be the same as capturing DV....it is DV, and I never have a single dropout with DV.

I also wonder if its simply something in the conversion that makes the downconvert think its dropping frames. Like the beginning or end of the recording...something that tricks the capture into thinking its dropping frames. Who knows. Like I say, I just quickly scrubbed through the footage and didn't see any screwy looking parts or anything that looked like a tape dropout. Just a little worriesome.

By the time Vegas 7 comes out, hopefully business will have picked up just in time, and I can start capturing HDV!



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videobear
Veteran


May 31, 2006, 8:22 AM

Post #4 of 15 (3828 views)
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Re: [RustyB] Downconverting HDV in-cam? Major dropouts? [In reply to] Can't Post
I had a ton of dropped frames reported by Vegas in my last DV capture (not even HDV)!

Of course, it was an off-brand tape, shot in a consumer camcorder, with a ton of time code breaks. So maybe that was the problem.

Before I capture HDV, I'm going to go back and recapture a "known good" DV tape. That way, if Rusty's problem crops up here, I'll know it ain't Vegas or the computer or something.




Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions


Colvin ADTR
Enthusiast

May 31, 2006, 8:38 AM

Post #5 of 15 (3824 views)
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Re: [videobear] Downconverting HDV in-cam? Major dropouts? [In reply to] Can't Post
You could be on to something with the TC breaks. When I first started with hdv I think I had a bit of trouble capturing but that stopped when I started using cineform's hdlink to batch capture and changed one of the settings to regenerate time code or something.


John McG
User

May 31, 2006, 1:13 PM

Post #6 of 15 (3808 views)
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Re: [RustyB] Downconverting HDV in-cam? Major dropouts? [In reply to] Can't Post
Are you sure its the tape? Dropped frames are usually a system problem like a hard drive is near it's capacity or needs defragging. Tape problems are dropouts and should capture fine (unless it breaks the timecode) but show up as glitches on playback in your timeline. Dropped frames is usually the system not being able to keep up with the data rate. Like you said it's the same as capturing DV since you are having the camera down convert. I don't think it being HDV has anything to do with it. That is if I am understanding your problem correctly.


RustyB
Veteran


May 31, 2006, 2:25 PM

Post #7 of 15 (3802 views)
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Re: [John McG] Downconverting HDV in-cam? Major dropouts? [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
Are you sure its the tape? Dropped frames are usually a system problem like a hard drive is near it's capacity or needs defragging. Tape problems are dropouts and should capture fine (unless it breaks the timecode) but show up as glitches on playback in your timeline. Dropped frames is usually the system not being able to keep up with the data rate. Like you said it's the same as capturing DV since you are having the camera down convert. I don't think it being HDV has anything to do with it. That is if I am understanding your problem correctly.


I don't think its the tape at all. I captured 4 tapes, all brand new 80 minute Sony Premium MiniDV tapes.

2 Tapes were HDV shot with an FX1.
1 Tape was from a VX2000.
1 Tape was from a PDX10

All tapes were captured with a HC1 set to output DV.

No dropouts on the VX/PDX tapes, or any of the other 8 DV tapes I captured that day...only the two tapes that originated as HDV.

I record some test footage at the beginning of the tape, rewind, watch, then start my regular recording about half way through. That shouldn't mess up the time code, but who knows.

Kinda strange!



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BigDaddyC
New User

May 31, 2006, 2:40 PM

Post #8 of 15 (3799 views)
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Re: [RustyB] Downconverting HDV in-cam? Major dropouts? [In reply to] Can't Post
Rusty,

Try recapturing a tape with the "stop capture if frames drop" option selected.

Then you'll know exactly where a dropped frame is suppose to be (I always capture with this setting on).
At that point you can go see what went wrong.

What is very likely is that your tape has an HDV dropout which seems to affect the timecode (you get the second log pause, as opposed to the DV dropout which gives you the funny pixels for a second or so). Since your HDV timecode gets compromised, your DV output also has a strange fluctuation in the timecode which would likely register as a drop out.

-C


vsimone
User


Jun 8, 2006, 5:24 AM

Post #9 of 15 (3684 views)
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Re: [RustyB] Downconverting HDV in-cam? Major dropouts? [In reply to] Can't Post
Rusty, I also downconvert HD to DV and have no problems. However I am using my FX1 to do the transfer. Perhaps its the HC1 that is causing the problem with the tapes recorded on your FX1.

Vic


VX2000, HDR-FX1, Liquid Edition 6.1, Avid Liquid 7


mpstrex
Novice

Jun 30, 2006, 1:52 PM

Post #10 of 15 (3431 views)
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Re: [videobear] Downconverting HDV in-cam? Major dropouts? [In reply to] Can't Post
Try cleaning the heads with a Sony tape head cleaner. Also, use a more robust tape from Sony:

http://www.taperesources-store.com/store/products.asp?dept=264

90% less dropouts and more! For under $20 per tape (a little pricey, yes), it's a GREAT insurance policy!

mpstrex


Godfrey
User

Feb 5, 2007, 1:22 AM

Post #11 of 15 (2626 views)
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Re: [vsimone] Downconverting HDV in-cam? Major dropouts? [In reply to] Can't Post
Vic

Have just bought FX1 and using Liquid to edit.

1. Are you still downloading from the FX1 or using a deck? If so which one please.

2. Any issues with using the FX1 and LE? ( not AVID?)

3. If you are using both FX1 dv and the VX2000 at 16:9 on the same timeline is the resolution materially different once burnt to DV?



Thanks


cathya
User

Feb 5, 2007, 2:14 AM

Post #12 of 15 (2623 views)
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Re: [Godfrey] Downconverting HDV in-cam? Major dropouts? [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Godfrey,

We film with a sony z1 and downconvert as we capture using liquid 6.1. All has been going well. We only film with 60 min tapes (sony dv pro 60). Sometimes when we capture lots of little orange arrows come up and the audio is a bit funny but if we recapture all is fine.

Cathya


vsimone
User


Feb 5, 2007, 5:16 AM

Post #13 of 15 (2618 views)
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Re: [Godfrey] Downconverting HDV in-cam? Major dropouts? [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Godfrey
I am still using the FX1 to downconvert, I have had no major dropout issues.
I am considering in buying the Sony HDR-HC7 for downconverting duties to take the load off the FX1.
I use LE 7.1, it performs very well except for the DVD authoring portion. I am having issues with menus not playing correctly.
In using the VX2000 at 16:9 you take a resolution hit and the final output looks a little fuzzy compared to the FX1 material on DVD.

Vic


VX2000, HDR-FX1, Liquid Edition 6.1, Avid Liquid 7


Godfrey
User

Feb 5, 2007, 1:37 PM

Post #14 of 15 (2601 views)
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Re: [vsimone] Downconverting HDV in-cam? Major dropouts? [In reply to] Can't Post
Thanks Cathy and good advice about choice of tape.

Vic. Thanks and very reassuring about the workflow with LE. We use Ulead W2 having abandoned the LE authoring some time ago.

Am using a Century anamorphic on my VX2100s until I can get another fx1. The image quality is superb and dont have to rely on the VX's 16:9 to reduce the resolution. Only nuisance is changing the flag from 4:3 to 16:9 and then mixing the clips with the converted hd to avoid pillar boxing.


RustyB
Veteran


Feb 5, 2007, 2:38 PM

Post #15 of 15 (2598 views)
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Re: [Godfrey] Downconverting HDV in-cam? Major dropouts? [In reply to] Can't Post
BTW, the problem I was having with all the crazy HDV dropout was finally narrowed down to the tapes I was using. I was using 80 minute Sony premium MiniDV tapes when I had the dropouts (several times). When I switched back to 60 minute Sony premium MiniDV, the dropouts stopped.



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Intergalactic Award-Winning Epic-Cinematic Wedding New-Doc Style Indie Fusion Bridal Movies on Hi-Definition Blu-Ray Disc